Has Anyone Else Stopped Believing in Coincidence?

"Tim (Fractal Footwork)" (fractalfootwork)
09/22/2013 at 15:29 • Filed to: F1, Mark Webber, OppositeLock

How is it that Mark Webber's RB9 has had multiple engineering failures, while Seb's chassis is always completely perfect? Especially after Mark posted such a competitive Q3 time that threatened pole position.

I don't see getting a ride as that big of a safety hazard anyways...

DISCUSSION (18)

getchapopcorn > Tim (Fractal Footwork)
09/22/2013 at 15:34

I'm never one to call bs or conspiracy but it's just ridiculous — I'm not so sure about what happened at the end of the race today but all the little things over the course of the past season and a half are just getting ridiculous.

McMike > Tim (Fractal Footwork)
09/22/2013 at 15:53

Seb is faster enough than Mark to ensure that he finishes ahead of him.* Putting inferior equipment on Mark's car is just stupid, and would cost them valuable constructor's points.

*or his standing starts.

Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents > Tim (Fractal Footwork)
09/22/2013 at 16:19

There was a post on f1fanatic that losted their retirements over 4 yeaes and they're pretty matched. Starting troubles however are a whole another matter. I think they're partly to blame for that.

GhostZ > McMike
09/22/2013 at 16:30

I agree with this. Between Mark's slower pace, and most importantly his lower starting position, he is in far more risk than Seb is of some kind of failure. That, and Seb's tire management is great, minimizing damage to the whole chassis and other components. I feel that Mark sort of ham-fists it sometimes since he can't hold back slightly and still be competitively.

highmodulus > Tim (Fractal Footwork)
09/22/2013 at 16:35

Yes, because throwing away a ton of constructor points makes total sense. Both have had gearbox issues- the bigger question is why they did this week after they did last race. I wouldn't want to be a Red Bull gearbox guy on Monday.

Also, some crap driving by Diresta and Riccardo- especially Riccardo. While Webber simply isn't nearly as good as Seb (Or Kimi, Hamilton or Alonso) he sure isn't stupid enough to stuff his car like Riccardo did.

highmodulus > Tim (Fractal Footwork)
09/22/2013 at 16:39

Now- conspiracy that I would believe- F1 and Ferrari. Bernie has acknowledged Ferrari get special treatment- and both drivers seem to get magic starts. Coloring outside the line with some back door traction/launch control maybe?

Also, why exact was all the illegal testing penalized by- well basically nothing. But rub a wing or hold up another car and lose 5 grid spots. Oh Bernie, don't ever change. . .

DasWauto > highmodulus
09/22/2013 at 16:51

Today was an engine problem for Mark. Loss of water pressure at the end.

highmodulus > DasWauto
09/22/2013 at 16:53

Interesting- so the short shifting radio command wasn't gearbox related?

DasWauto > Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents
09/22/2013 at 16:58

This. It might seem like Mark has all the bad luck but if you gather some stats it's all pretty even. The ones that stick in my mind are the engine failure while leading the Korean GP in 2010, the gearbox failure (IIRC) while leading Valencia last year and another gearbox failure at Silverstone this year, again while leading.

Vettel has had his fair share of bad luck but there's no reason to start conspiracy theories because of his current run of success.

Tim (Fractal Footwork) > Icemanmaybeirunoutofthetalents
09/22/2013 at 17:01

I wonder what the data looks like spread out over time, after Sebastian clearly slipped himself into the #1 driver of the team.

DasWauto > highmodulus
09/22/2013 at 17:01

Trying to make the engine last through the end of the race by not revving too high. I'll try to find a source to confirm the engine failure but the flames when it finally gave out are fairly definitive.

DasWauto > Tim (Fractal Footwork)
09/22/2013 at 17:10

Looking only at retirements:

2010: Seb - 3, Web - 2

2011: Seb - 1, Web - 1

2012: Seb - 2, Web - 3

2013: Seb - 1, Web - 2

Now, I haven't checked how many of these were mechanical failures but I don't remember many of them being racing incidents. The only one I do know of was Webber at Valencia a couple of years ago running into the back of a Lotus.

Looks pretty even to me.

As for Vettel's #1 role within the team, I think he has proven himself to be quicker time and time again. I don't think there's much arguing there.

That said, I don't think this has significantly affected the equipment Mark has gotten from the team. The only exception to that (that I can remember), was Vettel getting a new spec wing first a year or two ago and that's just a consequence Mark has to deal with, unfortunate as it may be.

DasWauto > getchapopcorn
09/22/2013 at 17:13

Have a look at some facts and you might re-evaluate your opinion. I've quickly put together some stats here ; they are by no means complete, but the picture it paints seems quite fair to me.

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DasWauto > Tim (Fractal Footwork)
09/22/2013 at 17:16

Woops, forgot 2009:

Seb - 3, Web - 2

DasWauto > highmodulus
09/22/2013 at 17:31

Here is a source noting that Horner told Vettel that Mark lost water pressure. (Scroll to the post from 1510).

Just wear your damn mask... > Tim (Fractal Footwork)
09/22/2013 at 19:59

You know, except for Silverstone.

GRawesome > Tim (Fractal Footwork)
09/22/2013 at 22:47

I thought the same thing this morning, but couldn't figure out a situation where screwing Webber over helped the team in any way. If there was any benefit at all though, I wouldn't put it past them for a second.

TrekHuis > DasWauto
09/23/2013 at 09:40

Adrian Newey told the same on SkyF1, 2 laps before the finish the car had no water left.